User talk:Santax

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How do you propose going about Trader Aerin? In-game (prior to this release) he was referred to as a Trader, only to become a Saboteur responsible for the bombing. Should Trader & Saboteur be merged (that seems most reasonable) or split it by their separate characteristics? Also, should we make a Biography section, similar to Scarlet? It would be nice to mention both his initial excitement and impression with the Zephyrites to the insane obsession and delusion at the very end. I'd love to hear your opinion. --Ventriloquist (talk) 10:56, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, they should definitely be one page. It's the difference between "Captain Logan Thackeray" and "Logan Thackeray", say. They're probably considered different NPC's from a mechanical POV, and I know people like to say that mechanics should always always always come before lore, but in practice if we adopted that practice too rigidly the wiki would become overly idiosyncratic and impossible to use. One page for one character, I think :)
The biography section on Scarlet's page was mainly because the introduction and background would have been too long to put in the lead. In Aerin's case, it would only be 2 or 3 paragraphs long, and so I think it'd be fine just to put his whole "story" all in one place, in the lead. Santax (talk · contribs) 11:49, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Quaggan icons in maintenance and notice templates[edit]

While I appreciate the idea to give them some Guild Wars feeling, I don’t like the icons there at all. Most templates gain way too much vertical space that way making them way too prominent. For example the move templates is doubled in height (going from 50px to 105px); the same applies to most other templates too. Also, the quaggans rarely give an idea what is going on, making it hard to distinguish the templates. This goes a bit against the intent of the maintenance templates—to give a quick and concise idea about the state of the page, without interrupting the page itself. Especially on pages where multiple notice templates are used, the quaggans are now taking up way to much room, unnecessarily pushing down the actual content—which is critical on pages like list of fansites where the templates are meant to be there permanently.

So tl;dr: while I like quaggans, I’m not a fan of using the icons for “wiki business”. poke | talk 18:43, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Ok, a couple had been used for {{Unimplemented content}} {{Historical content}} and such already so it was just about giving the templates consistency and making use of the concept art, but if it's not a popular idea I'll revert them :) I'm just doing some Living World stuff at the moment, so I'll give it until later on in the evening in case someone else has any thoughts and then I'll revert myself. Santax (talk · contribs) 18:58, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
TooOOoo bad there wasn’t more interest (by others) in discussing this, but thanks for reverting it for now :) poke | talk 13:22, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree with you, poke - a consistent system of quaggan icons would be nice, but they need to be smaller. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:37, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
I vote for the return of quaggan icons. Sol Solus (talk) 19:28, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


It's me again. This time, my plea involves a certain pact camp that will most likely be destroyed in a week. Now, the Concordia page was a just a redirect until today, I literally just wrote a sentence because, honestly, I don't know what else to include in it and it does seem like a shame to leave it so hollow since it's probable to say that it won't be the same after Entanglement. If you have any more knowledge of it, maybe mentioning Trahearne and the Personal Story that takes place in it or something, it'd be great. For the Pact! --Ventriloquist 23:32, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Will do :) will probably be tomorrow or something though since I've got a lot on at the moment! Luckily I did a map completion run of that zone a few days ago, although there doesn't seem to be much lore there. It used to be the site of an Alliance between Priory and Vigil, before the Pact was a thing. Santax (talk · contribs) 23:44, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
No problem, you have an entire week! I assumed it still was? See, I've been trying to fill up the holes in the Gyre Rapids page, and saw examples such as Flag Poles which only exist as a Vigil and a Priory variant; also, there seems to be no OOW representative at the fort (although they do prefer a quieter approach). So after all that, I'm not even sure is it considered a Pact fortress (as seen in the PS) or just an Alliance between the two orders, as seen from the NPC's dialogues and objects in the area. There's also a small watchtower at Stromkarl Heights which bears, once more, the flags of only two of the orders with no OOW members whatsoever. --Ventriloquist 23:57, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
This is one of the few things that's managed to retain my interest in lore as of late. The short jist of it as I understand it is that although Trahearne hosted the first Pact meeting there, the fort is not part of the Pact (not all of the Orders' activities are after all). It was established as one of two bases for this alliance between Priory and Vigil (supposedly before the Pact's existence) due to shared interests in the area - primarily fighting the Risen, excavating Rankor Ruins for ancient knowledge on the Elder Dragons, and generally securing the area from local threats (per Guardian Renton, Explorer Ironpaw, and Researcher Raekk). The second "Alliance" outpost is Caer Evermore. Tactician Art and Magister Lindsay are in command of Fort Concordia (of their respective orders), while Commander Raff and Explorer Banba are in command of Caer Evermore. Given all the dialogue, everything in the open world is pre-Forging the Pact however so it may have become part of the Pact, but there's no indication of this as the only recognition of Forging the Pact taking place is Raekk's dialogue in which he only says he barely remembers the event. Konig 05:04, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, you've a point that we don't see Order of Whispers there in the open world at all. But as you say, the open world in Timberline Falls seems to just predate Forging the Pact, I guess so it's not immersion-breaking for players that choose to do Timberline Falls map completion before doing that mission. We see Pact NPC's as soon as we enter Mount Maelstrom, and of course in Fireheart Rise and Frostgorge Sound. In that case, perhaps it would be best so say that it was a known Alliance outpost, and presumably became a Pact outpost thereafter. Santax (talk · contribs) 14:53, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Nightmare Hounds/Husks as Mordrem[edit]

Don't you think that's a bit hasty, just because the Shadow of the Dragon is a Mordrem? Unless you've seen something I've missed... Konig 19:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Double for the Blighted Husks. Konig 19:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
especially since several of the changed creatures have been clearly established as warped and corrupted versions of their Sylvari counterparts, much like the nightmare court itself. Thrain | contribs 19:32, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
There's heavy emphasis (read: Shadow of the Dragon, and as I found out after making this section, there are Veteran Thorn Wolves amongst Mordrem in Dry Top now) that the Nightmare is tied to Mordrmeoth. However, the presence of the Thorn Hounds I do not yet think confirms that all Nightmare Court/Nightmare-related stuff, let alone the Blighted stuff in Wychmire, are Mordrem. It certainly shows that Mordremoth can corrupt the Nightmare Hounds, and doing so does not outright alter their appearance, but it doesn't yet confirm Nightmare Hound=Mordrem. The Veteran Thorn Wolves in Dry Top likely count as Mordrem, however. But an isolated case is not proof for the full. Unless, as I ask of Santax, he has further evidence? If so, I see no reason to disagree with the change; if not, I'd like to only see the Veteran Thorn Wolf article marked as Mordrem. Konig 20:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps we should add an Affiliation section back to the NPC infobox, like GWW has? since race and affiliation aren't always the same (Charr/Flame Legion, Elemental/Branded, Asura/Inquest, Plants/Mordremoth etc) Thrain | contribs 21:25, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
We have that. It is marked as Organizations however. A single npc can have only one family (internal term of race) and family (internal name for organization/affiliation). So it cannot be both Mordrem and Plant. Dragon minions are marked as species, as far as we know. Konig 23:13, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The two most solid ones are Nightmare Hounds and Sinister Nightmare Hounds, which we know are Mordrem because they are summoned by the Shadow of the Dragon during the sylvari opening quest. In the same way, if Tequatl started summoning, say, Awakened, then we'd know that Palawa Joko was a Risen. Next is the enemies found in Experimental Lab Green, which, like Experimental Lab Red (which contains the Evolved Destroyer) and Experimental Lab White (which contains Bjarl the Rampager), is a lab set up for the purposes of studying dragon minions. We already knew that Mordremoth is definitely under scrutiny in the Crucible of Eternity, because that's where we learned its name from. So that covers husks etc. (which isn't surprising, since they have the same orange glow in their bellies as the Shadow of the Dragon). Most tenuous is the enemies which appear in The Battle for Wychmire Swamp, who are all suggested to be Mordrem rather than explicitly stated, but I've not met anyone who seriously believes that the Great Jungle Wurm is a result of anything other than Mordremoth's influence. Santax (talk · contribs) 08:37, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

So basically, "same old speculation." I'll keep my hat on the 'wait and see' button, personally, since we already have cases of Mordremoth's corruption lacking physical alterations. Konig 10:43, 14 August 2014 (UTC)