Talk:Kralkatorrik

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any1 got any source's of what the article says?? cause i never heard of it ^Teo^ 22:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I think The Movement of the World -- br12 • (talk) • 22:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

maybe a note and a link to that page then?? ^Teo^ 22:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I thought "Drakkar" was the water dragon? --Lou-Saydus 22:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

hmmm.. dunno rly ^Teo^ 22:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

nope.. Ancient Dragons this page says that it's 2 seperat dragons ^Teo^ 22:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Drakkar would be an ice dragon imo. -- Armond Warblade 22:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, even though all the ice melts. :P Lord Belar 00:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Drakkar can be D-Man, Water Dragon can be Scuba Steve. Problem solved. You hear me, ANet? Calor (t) 00:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Scuba Steve! Damn you! I'm also somewhat confused as to the line between Water and Ice as far as Guild Wars goes, since the Water school of magic covers all Ice-related magic, and indeed the damage is simply "Cold" damage for the majority of it all. We won't know till more info or GW2 is released. --Cjad the Nord 20:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Scuba Steve? Why not Steve Zissou? :P --MageMontu 19:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Contents 1 Is Grothmar really the Water Dragon? 2 Wing 3 Combat 4 Event System 5 diff=23675&oldid=23667 6 Order of Whispers 7 Kralkatorrik / Krakatoa

[edit] Is Grothmar really the Water Dragon?

It is just an image, but... there are large ships, perhaps frigates or something similar, in the OCEAN near the dragon. This does not fit the part of the dragon we see in the Charr homelands, it is merely a lake. The undead creatures of Orr on the other hand are ruled by an undead dragon, and as far as we know they have a navy. So either the image is just incorrect or the water dragon is not necessarily to be found in the charr homelands, but in the sea roughly south of Kryta/Tarnished Coast, where the sunken kingdom of Orr is located. --Longasc 22:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

That's clearly not an awaken dragon you're referring to, as there's grass growing on him. If it's the undead dragon, he wouldn't have grass on him and wouldn't be above surface. The reason for the boats would be that it's concept art, not an actual image of how it will look. Very rarely does concept art actually end up as a whole in the game. Also, since the image you're referring to is concept art for GW:EN and not GW2, it can't really be the undead dragon as he's not visible in EotN. — Galil 15:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I see your point about the concept art and it is good. I have a gripe with the names. People call the dragon Grothmar because he is in Grothmar Wardowns - just like the "Drakkar" in Drakkar Lake. Drakkar means nothing else than Dragon, was used for longships with a dragonhead as well. We do not know the names of the dragons except Primordus, so far the names are nicknames, both Drakkar and Grothmar. They sound similar and very likely to be their names, agreed. But we are jumping a bit to conclusions based on assumptions, but actually it does not hurt. I just do not like it, but with only one article as source that states not much, we cannot do much more than that. Except waiting for more input. --Longasc 22:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind nicknames based on explorable areas being used, as long as they are placed between inverted commas, so at least that way the reader knows it is a nickname and NOT the actual name. --Santax (talk · contribs) 10:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

You guys keep confusing this water dragon with the undead dragon of Orr, This guy "Scuba Steve" and the Undead Dragon of Orr are different. "Scuba Steve" flies south corrupting the land...the undead dragon of orr rises from beneth the sunken subcontient of Orr and rises it agin, enslaving the corsair navy that was exploiting the remains of Orr for bounty...the desert dragon goes and cuts of comminucation bewteen elona and tryia(contient)  !!!check the movement of the world article!!!

In EotN, it looks like has has layers of scales(?), and in the concept art, he's clearly in a different area with no layers, just spikes. But it is concept art, so you never know. 24.7.141.45 00:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

is he really going to be that huge in GW2? that would be crazy

go to the oposite side leave form doomlore and walk towrds it u can clearly see fins--The real lord randy taylor 05:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Dragons would be covered in fins. That depends on the fantasy world tho. ---Chaos- 17:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I see no fins. Just possible legs. At the least, limbs, which go into the ground and are therefore unable to be seen further. It could be fins, legs, or arms. So lets call them limbs for now, shall we? -- Konig Des Todes 03:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wing

If that dragon in the picture really is "Grothmar", don't his wings look like the searing crystals (color)?--Unendingfear File:User Unendingfear Crane.jpg 15:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Due to shape of the horns, and wings, it has been theorized on GW2Guru that is actually Zhaitan. Though it is hard to tell. But his body in GW1 was blue-ish, so having matched the searing crystals a little bit wouldn't surprise me, as those were blue-ish as well. Assuming this picture is of "Grothmar" that is. -- Konig/talk 16:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The searing "crystals" are obsidian (volcanic glass). -~=Sparky (talk) 19:07, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

But their color is a bluish color. And I wouldn't say they are Obsidian either, as they are a light blue color, not a black color. -- Konig/talk 20:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the Charr called upon Grothmar's power (praying to him) during The Searing. Unlikely though, since he was taking quite a nap. — PonyX 04:04, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they just hacked chunks off of him. Belar 04:15, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

The Searing was caused by the Cauldron of Cataclysm from the Titans. Besides, the incidences we have of a being calling upon a Charr resulted in this guy. -- Konig/talk 07:06, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

How do you get the Nornbear out of Charr...? I'm confused. — PonyX 15:03, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe he meant "a being calling upon a dragon" showing that had the Charr called upon the dragon, they would have ended up like the Nornbear

Woops, forgot to sign--Kitor 16:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

That is correct, I meant that the Charr was corrupted just as the Nornbear was, but by a different dragon. -- Konig/talk 21:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Combat

I can't wait to see how Anet puts these fights together. These guys are HUGE. 68.193.113.198 19:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

You ever play Lost Planet or see the trailer for its sequel?....We can take it down....71.234.86.225 22:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)AceKevin8412

[edit] Event System

I doubt you can kill any of the actual dragons (except Zhaitan) because it says that after they move, they don't do much. Visually, it doesn't quite match Grothmar. It looks too small to be Grothmar (there's no crater of corruption behind him or whatever). Killing random/generic dragons must be a part of the new event system (since Grothmar flying around with a huge trail of corruption behind him attacking villages isn't reasonable), so this could easily be a non-storyline random dragon. -~=Sparky (talk) 02:59, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] diff=23675&oldid=23667

"They work with the Krytans and Ascalonians, and even maintain a presence in Elona, although crossing the Crystal Desert is currently impossible due to Palawa's stranglehold over the southern reaches and the desert dragon's presence in the northern desert." --Santax (talk · contribs) 21:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't say that Joko's forces are fighting Kralkatorrik's forces. Just that the two forces prevent access to Elona. However, this shows Joko is fighting Zhaitan's: "This undead armada has cut off all human contact with Cantha, and the dragon’s undead army wages war even now along the northern Elonian border, preventing all in Tyria from departing for other lands...for now." -- Konig/talk 22:14, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The northern Elonian border could easily be the Blazeridge Mountains, if you consider the Crystal Desert to be part of Elona, in which case Zhaitan's forces would be fighting Kralkatorrik's? In any event, it probably actually is best to put it neutrally until it's made clearer. --Santax (talk · contribs) 22:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I think before the Crystal Desert was formed, the Crystal Sea (thus the Desolation as a possible coast) was the "boarder" between Tyria and Elona. And since the Crystal Desert was formed, I think the whole desert (including the Desolation) was a "no man's land" meaning there is no set boarder. This based on the mentions of Elona being just the three provinces (Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi) - meaning the Desolation wasn't considered Elona. But with Joko ruling Elona, I'd say the Elonian Boarder goes as far as Joko's rule. -- Konig/talk 23:14, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The Movement states that Joko established his throne in the Desert, but it doesn't mention whether if that's the actual desert or the place we used to consider the Desolation (I assume that minus the Margonite it is now considered part of the Desert). That said, the ruins in the Desert suggest that some point after the Exodus the Desert was part of the Elonian empire, unless Margonites liked building things on the seabed. --Santax (talk · contribs) 11:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

It is known that the Primeval Kings extended their rule all the way to the Tombs of the Primeval Kings, but after their fall, I don't think the Crystal Desert or the Desolation was really considered a real part of Elona. Like I said, it seems to be a "no man's land" of continents - part of the supercontinent Elona and Tyria is on, but not part of the individual continents, unless someone is currently taking claim on that land. Margonites were not part of Elona, and they did build structures in the desert - so did Turai and the other Elonians on the pilgrimage. But beyond the Primeval Kings, nothing shows the Desolation or the Crystal Desert to be a part of Elona except for what Joko rules after he rules Elona. As for where his throne is, it could be in the Desolation (which I'd assume would no longer be called such due to the water running through there now), or in the southern Tyrian map - or perhaps in between the two maps we have atm. I'd assume that Joko would love to build his throne (or at the least a monument) on the unfinished Temple of Ascension, to further plow his dislike for Turai (the whole finishing something his enemies couldn't).

In short, I don't think we can set a definitive line of where the boarder of Elona is at, except for where Joko now rules. And seeing how we don't know where that is at the moment, we cannot tell where the boarder is. All we can tell is that Joko is fighting Zhaitan, and Kralky is preventing access to Elona via the desert. -- Konig/talk 17:34, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Order of Whispers

I wonder how they got through. I smell an expansion in the planing! Either way ones You get an asura Gate some where none of the dragons will be able to stop travel to that area.--Yozuk 21:27, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I just think it's because they are more ninja (yes, that's an adjective now) than even GW1's finest assassins. Paddymew 05:54, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

My guess: Asura Gate. Or Kormir is given them access to the Shadow Nexus. -- Konig/talk 14:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing ninja about any GW1 assassin.

Nice guess, but someone has to build an Asura Gate first, and then why would only the Whispers be able to use it? And GW1 assassins have quite a few ninja things about them, you don't even need to look hard to notice. Rose Of Kali 19:11, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they found an abandoned gate, the Asura probably abandoned quite a few of them when they were fleeing from the Destroyers. It's also possible that they figured out how to build their own long range gates or teleporters. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:59, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

There is no mention of Asura ever coming near Elona, and it still doesn't explain why Whispers only. It does make me think of the portal in THK, it behaves like an Asura gate, but was obviously made by someone else. Rose Of Kali 11:35, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Due to the material of those, those gates (there are three - another is in Iron Mines, forgot where the third is) are made by the Mursaat. There is also the teleportation method that Rurik and the heroes used in Ruins of Surmia mission (which it is believed that all the "rose compasses" seen throughout the game - which are most dominant in Prophecies and the guild halls - are an old kind of teleportation pad). So there are at least four ways they could be traveling - via the Rift (Odran's portals or Shadow Nexus), via an Asura Gate, via a Mursaat gate (highly doubtful), or via the teleportation pad (should they be such). -- Konig/talk 16:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

For the record, there's an Asura gate undernearth Kamadan, so there could be more elsewhere in Elona. They also could've hired a krewe to build a pair of gates for them, or recruited some Asura with the necessary skills. They also could've figured out how to build long range teleporters themselves, or developed some form of magical stealth. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:32, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I question the canonocity of the Cantha and Elona version of getting to the Eye of the North, because only the beginning is different, and throughout the whole Eye of the North game, your hero is assumed to be Tyrian. Also, aside from this (and the joke of the Wintersday Dwarf), there are no dwarves in Elona or Cantha, and all the Asura seem to be Tyrian based (afterall, if there were Asura under Elona and Cantha, why are they all on the continent of Tyria now?. And why does everything have to be magical? Just like Basalt Grotto was not a magical means to get to Vabbi, perhaps the Order of Whispers just found a passage which no one else has. -- Konig/talk 16:56, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Canon is a tricky thing in games, but I don't think ANet would make an entire campaign non-canon for two thirds of the playerbase. We don't know if the Depths were just under Tyria - after all, the earthquakes spanned all 3 continents, and the Dredge made it to Cantha somehow. If something is seen in-game, it must be accepted as canon unless ANet says so. --Santax (talk · contribs) 17:03, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I'm not saying that the Depths of Tyria isn't under Cantha and Elona - in fact, for Elona, there are many things which hint to possible structures underground (many of the ruin structures is similar to those found in just underground locations - such as the Catacombs of Ascalon). I'm saying I don't think that the singular Asura Gate is canon lore for being under Kamadan and Kaineng City - like wise, I don't believe the PCs are in fact the ones who do all the lore things, but the main storyline is done by Devona & co. and the heroes of the campaign (quests is far questionable on who does it - I think the other henchmen personally). With that belief of mine (which, honestly, is mostly based off of the Stories) Devona and co. would be the heroes which are talked to that say they are from Ascalon and the like - not some random Canthan or Elonian hero. -- Konig/talk 21:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Don't you think it's a bit early for such an in-depth analysis of how they get there? All we can is guess and speculate. :P And the story of Devona&co vs the PC is age old, and is still open to personal interpretation, it was designed that way, you make you story to be what you want it to be. Rose Of Kali 14:21, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Simple answer: Whispers have access to certain beta skills--99.225.28.182 04:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Kralkatorrik / Krakatoa

Could this dragon be related to the volcanic Indonesian island Krakatoa? I would edit the page, but I wanted to get a second opinion. Markus Clouser 01:35, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

The structure of this word makes it sound Northern-European/Viking in origin. It seems unlikely that someone would take an Indonesian volcano and make it sound like it came from Northern Europe. Thus I wouldn't put it in the article unless confirmed by ANet. Rose Of Kali 17:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)