Talk:Armor

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Gallery Project - DONE[edit]

So I took advantage of the fact that my only class today was canceled, and went to TOWN with this project. I created a page with all of the armor sets available to humans (which were also in the PvP locker), took high-res screenies of all three kinds (light, medium, heavy), and organized them into tables. I even went ahead and did a gender-specific gallery for the Sorcerer armor, male and female, including dyed and undyed full sets. Take a look at the page, let me know what you think on my talk page. Feel free to reuse/redistribute within the Wiki. Heck, it would be nice to see if someone else could take the same initiative and do something like I did, but for the other 4 races. I used the original GWW as a base, since I don't know much about Wiki-editing. But let the visuals speak for themselves. Oh, and as far as naming convention (as mentioned above), I say we name these armor pages according to their PvP names, since there is only ONE PvP variant of each skin/art. In each sub-page, it can be noted what other names the same armor set goes by. The link to the page is: User:Kristofferus/Armor/Human. Signed, Kristofferus 05:47, 7 November 2012 (UTC).

I like it, great work! One thing I noticed is the exotic set is the same pictures for each type which seems to be a copy/paste mistake. As far as the other races, if we just copy-paste the template with the pages and leave them blank (after changing the names to let people post pictures), I think it will be filled up fast so you definitely shouldn't take it upon yourself to do all races. One more thing I noticed is your page to link to the galleries (with the colorful icons) isn't on the human page, and it should be IMO for easy navigation to the other races. That small tab also doesn't need the "by acquisition" options, as the list of armors page will probably still exist anyway and honestly the gallery is well divided for that as well. I think before even doing the other races' gallery, fixing up the actual armor pages will be next priority for whoever decides to be a proactive wiki-er, as most of them are blank/don't have acquisition information/costs/mats, etc. All in all, awesome job! One of the biggest part of the wiki done. Adding new armors from now on will be pretty easy for people. 142.167.204.184 23:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Forgot to add, but I'll start taking Sylvari pictures to try and fill out a part of the gallery. I only have male characters unfortunately and I already have my 8 character slots taken (and will definitely not buy new ones). As far as the format goes to insert the pictures though I have no clue how to do that, beyond just copy-paste (but I mean putting new links in, etc). 142.167.204.184 23:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for spamming but scratch that last idea. While I can do the easy armor sets, I have no way of doing all the sets and I assume people will want something standardized will all 1 character model. It will be easier to leave it blank for now until either I have all the armor pieces or someone else who has them all does it. 142.167.204.184 23:43, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Standardizing is nice, but not ideal. At least between the races. As long as your character's features don't interfere with the armor (long beard/hair), then it's fine. All warrior armors cover hair (some cover beard), but medium and light don't. In fact, my Sylvari's chin portrudes most medium masks. As far as the exotic sets, it's no mistake. The armors are identical on all three styles (light, medium, heavy). Although they only show up under the Light tab for PvP armor. --Kristofferus 18:56, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

So is there a reason you never put this up on the main page? We could finally remove the 2 dozen random gallery pictures on the armor page's main page and it's pretty hidden right now so normal that no one is filling it out. I know some people were talking about picture quality but honestly it's much better than anything else available. 142.167.209.130 18:19, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I've actually been playing through the game as a warrior and ranger, checking out all of the renown heart NPCs and filling out the info as necessary. Eventually, a master list can be created using the names of the armor as they appear in the trading post (and not the names of the karma-equivalents, which are soulbound on acquire) as well as a location, which can go into the individual pages for such armors. The naming is the most pressing issue, because once the page is made it becomes tricky to rename it - even with redirects. While I think keeping the PvP Locker naming convention, it doesn't match most of the PvE sets and place where most people will get confused. So sticking with basic names (like Student's armor versus linen armor) is probably best. Also, I've found some armors on trading post but never observed them drop, so I assumed they were generic drops and not quest rewards (which are often soul- or account-bound). Now that we're able to preview all armor classes on the same character again, it should be easy to each all renown heart NPCs with my main char, a warrior, who's at 60% completion.--Kristofferus 05:57, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Initial Level Requirements - PROPOSED[edit]

Both Helmets and Shoulder pieces can not be equipped by new level 1 players. Helmets start at level 8 and Shoulder pieces at 15 or 20. (not sure at work, so I can not check in game at the moment.) The preceding unsigned comment was added by JonJonz (talk) at 21:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC).

That's not necessarily true, since some classes allow for a choice of headgear and shoulderpads as part of their starter armor. Using a transmutation stone, one can essentially have whatever skin as early as level 1. Elementalists, mesmers, necromancers, rangers, warriors, guardians, engineers, and thieves all have the option to wear a helmet as starting equipment (oh, that's actually all 8 professions!); while warriors and guardians have the option to wear shoulderpads. --Kristofferus 05:57, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Gallery pages[edit]

moved from Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Projects/Armor skins

Galleries are somewhat lacking at the moment, especially in appearance - they're not tidy or easy to browse, "<gallery>" means there are no redlinks for easy uploading, and they're just plain ugly :P. CM armor#Gallery is an example.

Proposals with placeholder images:

  • [[User:Pling/Sandbox/Armour/Character|Character]] - all armour for a particular race-gender-weight combination (like http://www.gw2armor.com/). (In terms of usage, this would be GW2W's equivalent of gw1:Assassin armor.)
  • Type - replacement for galleries like CM armor#Gallery; addition to Devona's armor (or a parent article for all named armour of a particular armour weight)
  • Dungeon - an overview of a particular "genre", like dungeon armor, or cultural armor. (Having overview galleries on those pages would let you organise/prioritise your in-game time/money.)

Question: asura and charr have the same armour appearance regardless of gender, so I merged the gender sections for these two races. However, what I haven't dealt with are the similarities between norn, human and sylvari - human and sylvari have roughly the same proportion (but different skin aesthetics); female norn and humans are pretty much the same. How should we deal with this? Should we include all genders and all three races, like you see in the proposals above? Or should we merge them in some way because of their similarities?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Other ideas? pling User Pling sig.png 22:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I particularly like the "Type" gallery. (I've created a mockup using your format here) - I can very much see what this would replace + where it would go...
I do think it would be very helpful to use different armors in your illustrations though :D (only needed if we do pursue this)
User:Kristofferus/Armor/Human#Soldier.2FHeavy provides a more attractive way of displaying what you're doing with "character".. so I'm less keen on that one.
Dungeon is ok.
-Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:55, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Kristofferus's "character" gallery - if you have a male character, the female images get in the way. They're not useful for the character you're trying to view armour for, so you may as well keep them separate. Also, while the section intros are useful, we can just link to the pages which already have that info instead of duplicating it in the gallery.
Humanoid merge - norn (males, in particular) have different proportions to humans and sylvari - armour can sometimes look quite different. And sylvari plantiness/barkiness is different to human/norn skin, which can also make the overall armour appearance look different (e.g. compare sylvari and human). pling User Pling sig.png 00:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Some thoughts as I look into this: YES galleries need work. These are all very good replacements. Because there are a few differences between norn, human and sylvari, I don't think we should merge them. I'm very much thinking of trying to picture armor on your slim sylvari after seeing a norn female wearing it, quite a different thing. Or try to imagine your armor on your tiny human male, after seeing it on a norn male, those are even more extreme. Are Asura and Charr armor really exactly the same between genders? I don't play them enouigh to know..
Where would the "character" galleries go? I don't see a perfect place for them atm.
While we're at it, I think we should rework armor pages in general :P I, at least, am not interested in the defense levels on the armor first and foremost. I want to know looks, level, place of acquisition and cost. If we list level (character level and rarity level), it should really be obvious the defense stats are maxed for that setup. If they are 'not', then we could add the actual numbers. They shouldn't be listed anywhere else than on individual piece pages. It should be obvious better rarity means better stats, numbers aren't really important. We need to start splitting information on logical places instead of duplicating it 5 times. (This is related to galleries since I think pages like Ascalonian Catacombs armor should more or less be pure gallery pages) - anja talk 07:47, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I forgot! IF people agree and "Ascalonian Catacombs armor" and those pages become galleries, we probably need to add a good way to link to each separate piece in the gallery. - anja talk 07:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
It sounds like we could still get away with merging Sylvari + Humans! -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 10:40, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Not when masks somehow inject chlorophyll pigments of the roots of the sylvari's hair.--Relyk ~ talk > 10:44, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
It sounds more like you guys are going to be doing all the gallery images then. even with duplicate armors. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 11:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Stats are important though, particularly attributes, e.g. power+toughness+vitality, or power+precision+crit damage. Some people will probably decide what armour they want based on the stats, while others will just go for appearance. So I don't think we can make Ascalonian Catacombs armor a pure gallery... but we should move the gallery section higher up the page, at least.
Also, we could split the rare and exotic sections. I think all the rare dungeon armor sets have the same appearance, so we could make a blanket "dungeon rare armor" article, put a gallery there, and include the stats given by each dungeon. That way, "Ascalonian Catacombs armor" will only have the exotic armour (which is what most people are probably interested in). We could then condense the attributes/defense-level tables into something smaller, giving more prominence to the gallery. I'll sandbox something to illustrate what I mean. pling User Pling sig.png 14:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Yes, all rare dungeon armor has identical appearance. Per Alex's concern, I would like to see us consolidate all armor skins to a single gallery page per skin, that lists all the acquisition methods for that skin (but not stats, unless it's unique). This would make it easy to create an armor skin index page (per armor class) to cater to the people searching for a particular look.
The individual named armor set pages, where we list the stats, can use the armor skin name in the gallery template to avoid duplicating files, yet still have a gallery for every named armor set. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:51, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I created AC armor as an example of what I was talking about above (edit: but I'm not sure how to deal with stat numbers...) . I'm a bit confused about what you're describing, Ish - could you give an example (not necessarily a mockup)? pling User Pling sig.png 16:20, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Well, like the god/temple armors - there are 6 named sets that you get from different karma vendors in different locations, but they all have the same appearance. So you'd have one page Temple armor that lists the 6 different places to purchase the distinct named armor sets, and the gallery. Each individual named-set page like Arcon armor (we need to get rid of those suffixes) lists the specific stats for that set, but for the gallery, passes "| skin = Temple armor" to the template so it re-uses the same images as on Temple armor. Those 6 armor set pages are already doing this - there are 7 images reused on all 6 pages, but Aurora armor has additional images used only on that page.
The point of having an armor-skin page is so that if we make a Gallery of heavy armor or something, we can show each skin only once instead of repeating the Temple armor skin 6 times, or the rare dungeon armor skin 8 times. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:49, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Ok, that makes sense.
By the way, I'm really not happy with the price/stats section in the AC proposal. I like having "head/shoulders/etc" in rows because that's how you see them in-game in H; but for the code box, having them as columns makes it easier to copypaste either all the codes for your armor class, or just codes for the particular pieces you want. Someone else with better design capabilities needs to sort that out :P. pling User Pling sig.png 17:16, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Pages and galleries[edit]

Changed some stuff around and made a few examples.

You're after a skin - you go to Gallery of human male heavy armor. Click the armour set name to see stats/acquisition, click the gallery to see other angles/races/genders. You can see the example armour detail pages and galleries here. There's also a naming proposal there. I think that kinda covers the main armour skin types. The type it intentionally doesn't cover is crafted armour - I'm not going anywhere near that.

This is still pretty rough, though. I'm not sure how consistent we can get armour pages since their details vary depending on how they're acquired, what stats they have, what names they have. But this should give an idea of what armour pages and galleries could look like.

I'd definitely like more input. I'm not particularly creative, and I'm more used to following formatting. pling User Pling sig.png 01:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I really like what you've done with Armour/temple. The page is short!
I also think the box linking to armors with the same appearance is a good idea.
I still think that there is too much space in [[User:Pling/Sandbox/Armour/Character|the character one]], but its very difficult to find a layout that looks alright for those. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 00:37, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Does the character one look any better now? (I like that the cell background colours are now consistent, i.e. dark for set name, light for image cell, white for gallery link.) pling User Pling sig.png 00:59, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Much improved. (if the images were the same height everything would be pretty much perfect like that imo). -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 01:47, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
[1] 1366x768. Fyi, I only see the order and cultural boxes on the same row; the others are on their own row. People with wider screens might see the other boxes sharing rows. Should I include {{clear}}s or leave it as it is? pling User Pling sig.png 01:55, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
One point I want to make is that uniform height in these tables is more important than uniform width. Column widths can adjust to fit the thumbnail, but the row height will match the tallest image, leaving jagged whitespace under the others in the same table. And if you leave it as is with multiple tables floating beside each other, it gets even worse. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:00, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Which would mean files must be uploaded with the same size, or that each file would need to be adjusted in the page with |141px here and |138px there, etc? Is there a friendlier/easier way? The former isn't feasible with so many images; the latter would need more micromanagement, or whatever.
I don't mind having one table per "row", it would just result in more whitespace. pling User Pling sig.png 02:12, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
You can set the height without the width, e.g |x150px. Just pick a height and apply it to every image. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:20, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't want yet another gallery discussion to turn into nothing. Frankly, anything we do will be better than what we currently have, so maybe we should just go ahead with it. pling User Pling sig.png 01:57, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to start implementing some of this now. I'll start with renaming images, since this will make the gallery implementation much easier; I'm probably begin with the dungeon stuff. Although there hasn't been much discussion (despite being on GW2W:RFC), as I said, something is better than nothing. pling User Pling sig.png 18:51, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I can't say much on it. I'm fine with your implementation for now.--Relyk ~ talk > 18:57, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I cheekily implemented it at Heritage armor ages ago. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:17, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Needless to say, for a project with so many oddly named files, it would be very useful to get file move suppression for autoconfirmed editors per GW2WT:TECH#Suppress redirect. (unless Pling is soloing all those files in one mighty push) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:51, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't plan on soloing it all, no...
Ascalonian Catacombs armor is done. I created Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Armor formatting, but it's still incomplete. pling User Pling sig.png 21:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure I'm happy with the filename format. Should there be spaces between the dashes and words? Should there be dashes at all? It needs some kind of separator imo, but I dunno. pling User Pling sig.png 21:36, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Charr tails[edit]

Can I crop charr tails out of armor images? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:29, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

If the armor doesn't cover it, sure. I can't think of any armor that covers the complete tail off-hand. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:04, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Curious Dungeon armor thingy[edit]

So, Dungeon Armor merchants have helms, boots, and gloves for 180 tokens and shoulders for 210 tokens. Shoulders have the lowest defense and stat modifiers of any armor piece. Why do they cost more? Not upset about it or anything, just found it to be a curious little situation. Tancred Spitfire 19:51, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Gallery of masks/headgear[edit]

I was thinking that it might be cool to have a gallery of all the light, medium, and heavy armors that only includes the headgear. We had something similar in the original GW1 wiki, and it was great! The only distinctions that need to be made are that human, norn, sylvari and asura all share one common skin, while the charr often have unique skins. I've started this, and included the starter light headgear on a human male. It's just for an idea of what the gallery page could look like. Also note that instead of using blank dye channels, we could use contrasting colors on all four channels to show dyeable areas. I propose black, white, red, and blue. Also, it would be idea to have all other armor and weapons hidden, to emphasize the headgear and nothing else. It would be also ideal to choose a character with a hairstyle that does not cover from the forehead down, so it won't take away from the headgear itself. Most male and female headgears of the same race are identical, but to be inclusive, we could have individual images for each gender. What this means is each individual headgear skin would appear four times: once for each gender of human/norn/sylvari/asura, and one for each gender of charr. Now I understand charr have the same armor skins regardless of gender, but because the male and female faces have some unique distinctions, it may be wise to also include both genders here. I will update this later today, but just wanted to get some input or maybe see if anyone's started a similar project. User:Kristofferus/Gallery_of_light_headgear --Kristofferus 20:59, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I would like to kindly disagree with your statement that all races share helm skins except for Charr. Looking at the Necromancer starting masks, you can easily note major changes with each race. Additionally, there are minor changes with every race's helm skins. These can be minor, like helms being slightly longer or shorter, to major changes, like Acolyte's Helm (aka Named Exotic Light) on different races(Asura get chin-guards in addition to the blindfold). Esplen 09:41, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

When is the earliest a ranger can obtain and equip: shoulders, headgear, backpiece?[edit]

Without the benefit of being able to choose any of these 3 types of items during character creation, when is the earliest level that a ranger can obtain and equip each of them? --138.75.212.57 19:46, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Lowest on the TP for shoulders and gloves is lv10-11, so I guess about there. Backpieces are more like lv40 (but they give minimal stats anyway). -- Dagger (talk) 20:07, 31 January 2016 (UTC)