Talk:Ancient dragons

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Is this a confirmed name for them? I've seen them referred to officially as "true dragons", "ancient dragons", "great dragons" and "elder dragons"... maybe we should just have them all listed at the page Dragon instead? --Santax (talk · contribs) 19:40, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I've only heard of em as Ancient Dragons.. And thats the name they have on the Movement of the World article. --- -- (s)talkpage 20:12, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

All of those phrases I listed above were used in the Movement of the World article... --Santax (talk · contribs) 20:18, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

You can make an argument for any, but I've seen "ancient dragons" the most. I think "true dragons" in the article was simply to differentiate them from the "lesser" Glint and Kuunavang. Calor (t) 20:22, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Who named the water dragon "Grothmar"? Just because he's in Grothmar Wardowns doesn't make him the Grothmar.--Sparky75 19:18, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Same as "Drakkar". Nicknamed after the explorable area that he is found in. It's just a temporary nickname, hence the quotation marks. --Santax (talk · contribs) 19:38, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Drakkar however, is dereived from the Norse for dragon. So slightly more related. Backsword 19:40, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I mean. Grothmar I would expect does not come from the dragon. Unlike the Drakkar. It would help If there was a Norse term for Grothmar.--Sparky75 18:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Could ancient dragon of Orr be... 2 Move proposal 3 Water Dragon 4 Change name 5 Crystal Desert Dragon Could Be...? 6 Roll call 7 POSSIBLE new DRAGONS? 8 We're All Gonna Die Man!!! 9 "Dragon" should perhaps be a split article 10 another two possible dragons 11 Dragon Datas 12 Hmm 13 Uhm... 14 Another possible dragon 15 A Dragon... ?

[edit] Could ancient dragon of Orr be...

...Rotscale. 1.He is undead. (lmao) 2.He is dragon. (lmao) 3.Scepter of Orr was found in Majesty's Rest.Palce where Rotscale is. 4.Pretty short, but still.

Number 4 sorta shows the flaw there. They are said to be bigger and mightier than even Kuunavang or Glint, and they're pretty big compared to the Rotscale. -- br12 • (talk) • 19:40, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Judging from this concept art I found of him, I don't think he's Rotscale :P --Santax (talk · contribs) 19:57, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Out of curiosity what's the source for that pic? --MarinBloodbane 16:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I found it on the conceptart.org thread for Eye of the North, Utopia and GW2. --Santax (talk · contribs) 16:26, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

That's an interesting theory. Look at the humans beside the dragon. We'll say...1/5 the height of the dragon, maybe 1/4 depending on how you look at it. Rotscale wasn't that big, but has anyone considered that Rotscale, being a "youth", may have aged over those 250 years and grown a lot? Calor (t) 16:53, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

interesting calor ^Teo^ 22:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

According to the Movement of the World Primordus was the first to awaken, and the undead dragon of Orr was sleeping beneath the Orrian peninsula / subcontinent. The concept art could depict Rotscale, and Rotscale could be one of the Orrian dragon's minions. -- Gordon Ecker 04:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Couldn't be Rotscale, he died too easily. :P Lord Belar 04:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Unless there's some cheezy rebirth thing, I don't think it's rotscale. -- Armond Warblade 22:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Rotscale is killable, that doesn't necessarily mean he's canonically killed in GW1. -- Gordon Ecker 04:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Tell that to the price of rotwing recurves tbh. -- Armond Warblade 07:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Rotscale is easy to kill, but so is (was) The Great Destroyer and he was supposed to be Primordus's general.. 85.157.177.140

Rotscale? WTF? The dragon in the picture doesn't look anything like Rotscale! We'll set aside the fact that it's got a complete body, including hind-legs, since maybe Rotscale grew new hindquarters, but how do you explain the neck? Rotscale had a long serpentine neck, this creature doesn't. Growing new hindquarters is within the realm of possibility, but losing his neck? If you REALLY wanted to stretch it, you could argue for some sort of transformation, but in that case, it could just as well be a picture of Prince Rurik.  :p --68.187.144.197 21:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Rurik got butchered more than meat in a deli. And I didn't notice the legs and neck, never looked that much at Rotscale and the picture. Calor (t) 21:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

My point exactly. Considering how much Rurik's been abused over the few years we've seen him, who knows what he'll look like in 250 years?  ;) Note, I'm not seriously arguing that Rurik is the Ancient Dragon of Orr. That makes no more sense than claiming Rotscale is, given that neither Rurik nor Rotscale look anything like the picture or in any way match the descriptions given. --68.187.144.197 21:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting idea, but no. Rotscale isn't big enough to raise orr out of the ocean. --Lou-Saydus 18:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah... Rotscale is constantly being slaughtered by people en masse, I don't think he's nearly powerful enough to be the Undead Dragon. Plus, he is already "awakened", whereas all the primeval dragons are "awakened" between GW1 and GW2 --Gimmethegepgun 19:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to add some information in regards to what Calor mentioned about Rotscale growing up in 250 years. If Guild Wars follows the basic premise and lore found throughout most cultures where dragons are involved, 250 years isn't a long time for a dragon to age to "ancient" status. They called Glint a youth compared to these ancient dragons and during Prophecies, Glint was nearly 3000 years old. While I have not found any lore to suggest the age of Rotscale, I would assume he is younger, if not much younger, than Glint. I'm sure in GW2, there will be lore to explain the age of these ancient dragons and cross-referencing that with what is known about the younger dragons, a basic calculation of the life expectancy of a "legendary dragon"(term I use for Glint, Kuunavang, and the ancient dragons) could be made. — Gares 17:02, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so... Although this pic could be an early concept for Rotscale and judging at least by the head it looks like Rotscale. IMO, theres no way for that to be the Undead Dragon, because:

1. Compared to Primordus, Grothmar and Drakkar he's far too small (he's like 1/10 of Drakkar)

2. He's imprisoned by men, and as I recall, the Ancient dragons are farrrrrr to powerfull for humans

3. ...and were like sleeping untill GW2. Before, I see no logical explanation why they should sleepwalk (in the time of men). They were all sleepy-encrusted untill The Great Destroyer went boom.--Demonisher 20:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

"Grothmar" was dramatically scaled down compared to the concept art, which had multiple ships sailing around it, this dragon could have been scaled up. And we don't know if those are humans, they could be giants chaining down the dragon thousands of years ago. -- Gordon Ecker 07:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

What if it was actually the Cataclysm that killed and "revived" the Orrian dragon as an undead dragon? Think about it. What are the chances of there just happening to be an ancient undead dragon beneath Orr? -- Gmr Leon

Maybe it still is living and just lords over undead like a minion master. Laserblasto! 03:12, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Move proposal

I don't think this article should be moved, as the ancient dragons are distinct from other dragons. -- Gordon Ecker 01:25, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree - anja 01:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

/agree. ^Teo^ 10:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah i agree too, "ancient dragons" sets them apart. --Lou-Saydus 18:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Water Dragon

It is just an image, but... there are large ships, perhaps frigates or something similar, in the OCEAN near the dragon. This does not fit the part of the dragon we see in the Charr homelands, it is merely a lake. The undead creatures of Orr on the other hand are ruled by an undead dragon, and as far as we know they have a navy. So either the image is just incorrect or the water dragon is not necessarily to be found in the charr homelands, but in the sea roughly south of Kryta/Tarnished Coast, where the sunken kingdom of Orr is located. --Longasc 22:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

That.... is the undead dragon.... at the bottom of the ocean.... --Gimmethegepgun 01:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

It's concept art, they could've scaled it down. -- Gordon Ecker 02:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Change name

From Ancient dragons to Ancient dragon. Just a common wiki theme of not having articles plural. Anyone agree/disagree? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Kainui .

Except there's more than one. Lord Belar 23:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Kind of like how we have a page called 'Dwarf' instead of 'Dwarves'. GF. Kai Nui 19:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Crystal Desert Dragon Could Be...?

I'm going to guess Rodgort. Crystal desert is hot, Rodgort's skills are fire magic which is hot, and we know Rodgort is a man, I mean a dragon! RRRROOODDDGOOOOORRRTTTT!! Kai Nui 20:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I would think a desert dragon would be attuned with Earth Magic, but I wouldn't think a dragon would have a specific preference to one element. For all we know, he could be a special monster type thing with no profession. -- Brains12 \ Talk 22:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I think Kuunavang, although labeled as special, is really more towards the air elementalist side of things, afterall, Dark Chain Lightning is just it's variation of Chain Lightning, even though technically it isn't an elementalist skill... eh... Still, we have a name rodgort and faces that need naming and they all seem to be dragons, so Rodgort could still fit in. Kai Nui 22:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Roll call

So far, we know the following:

• At least four dragons have awakened: Primordus, the dragon which was beneath Orr, the dragon which was slumbering "in the deepest waters of the sea" and the dragon which "erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon". (The Movement of the World)
• Primordus is in the depths of Tyria, he can create life from stone and the Great Destroyer was his most powerful general. (The Movement of the World)
• The undead "elder dragon of Orr" is the same dragon which caused the continent to rise from the ocean. (The Movement of the World)
• There is a "desert dragon" in the northern Crystal Desert, its' "twisted servants" attack the Charr in Ascalon. (The Movement of the World)
• "An elder dragon of ice and snow arose in the farthest northern peaks".
• The Drakkar is a dragon. (PC Gamer)
• The "water dragon" is a dragon. (PC Gamer)

-- Gordon Ecker 02:38, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, now put that in the article. Lord Belar 02:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

What wbout Glint?-- Ninja Dragon 03:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

She's not an ancient dragon. -- Plingggggg \ Talk 03:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

She certainly looked old...... -- Ninja Dragon 03:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, she's an old dragon, but compared to these ancient ones, she's a tiny baby. The ancients are large, ageless and pwnz0rs. -- Plingggggg \ Talk 03:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

So the other dragon's are like godzilla compared to Glint? Or maybe Glint is just malnourished.....-- Ninja Dragon 03:23, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Well if that's the case, then what about Drakkar? He might be a bit larger than Glint but he's still no where near the size of Grathmor. (Or even whatever the hell was at the bottom of the Pre-Ascalon Catacombs for that matter). Also ask yourself: If Drakkar was underneath sunken Orr, would he have the raw mass to raise it back up again? ...even with an army of corrupted Norn-Were's helping him? I Think not, he's too puny to match the full scale of other "Ancient Dragon" concepts and is probably just another "General". --ilr 05:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Could the dragon at the second portal of the sunjiang mission be a dragon too? or is it just a statue? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:64.254.236.98 (talk) .

I don't recall there being any dragons in the Sunjiang District mission. -- ab.er.rant 08:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

There's a nearly buried stone dragon head in Sunjiang District. IMO it's just a shrine dedicated to Tahmu. -- Gordon Ecker 06:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POSSIBLE new DRAGONS?

I found these hidden (not really hidden) dragons buried in the underworld mountains and I was wondering if they have any influences to the ancient dragons we seek. ~ Ascalon Patriarch

please use these links and tell me what you think.

Red Eye'd Overseeing both dragons Blue Eye'd --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Ascalon Patriarch (talk) .

They're not ancient dragons, they were transformed into their current form by Grenth after they unsuccessfully challenge dhim for his position, see the Guild Wars Wiki's Twin Serpent Mountains and Reaper of the Twin Serpent Mountains articles for details. -- Gordon Ecker 06:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

TWIN SERPENT...TWO DRAGONS BOTH LONG AND SCALY...hmm...--Demonisher 20:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] We're All Gonna Die Man!!!

A little panic ^^ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Krisstina (talk) .

Well, we're not really born yet, so meh :P. -- pling | ggggg 15:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL XD (Krisstina 18:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC))

[edit] "Dragon" should perhaps be a split article

The article name "dragon" links here, however, it seems like the name should be reserved for a different article for some time in the future, since we may end up seeing glint, Kuunavang, or some other equivalent type dragons in the game.

The split may not be useful right away, since at this point there isn't any information about the other dragons in the game, but it does seem useful for later.Tambora 00:39, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it will probably turn into an article of itself :) But since these are the only Dragons so far known about, it can stay a redirect for the time being. --- -- (s)talkpage 12:53, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] another two possible dragons

I believe there was a small one off to the side on Shing Jea, but the main point of adding this is to mention the dragon head sticking out of the ground in the middle of the Sunjiang District in Cantha. that might be a problem for the locals. unsigned

[edit] Dragon Datas

On each (known by nickname or name) dragon talk page, I will try to write each dragons specie, abilities and so on. But for fair sake, I will also write it down here.

Here is what I know so far:

1.Drakkar - Coulden't figure out yet. Although he has wings and legs, so my best guess yet is a Wyrm.

2.Grothmar - Like Drakkar, although I disqualified many because of the lack of wings and scales. Chineese dragon or any other wingless-dragon (maybe also Ouroboros and Oriental dragon).

3.Primordus - I figured out more than the other two:

• Dragon Type: Western (99% sure)
• Abilities: Spit fire, fly, talk (communicate?) with other animals (maybe also humans?)
• Flying type: Slow-Medium. He has more size-and muscles than wings. He travels more slow on land than air, from almost obvious reasons.
• Spit type: Fire (also 99%). This fire is powerful, can last for very large periuds of time, but, it also makes him vulnerable; after his long-spits of fire, he is exhausted, making him weaker, and giving us (the killers *sniff sniff*) an oppurtonity to strike him down!
• Dangers: (may) possess extremley powerful magiks, and combined with strengh, he can be a tough opponet. If you are far, he will burn you or use magiks, and when close, he can in a swip of a claw tore you into little pieces. When in danger, he can fly above you and kill you from there. (Note: If you damage his wings, he can be pinned down, giving you a chance, but it may also enrage him).

4.Other dragons - Untill we get clear images of them and a right source, that is all what I can get.

I will post more informationa s soon as I get it. In the meantine, comment this post to add what you think and your theories and more stuff :) 89.139.235.214 11:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hmm

Drakkar?
And another Dragon of some type.
Have fun. There's some nice other pics in that gallery, too. --- -- (s)talkpage 13:36, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

The first one is likely "Grothmar". -- Pling \ talk 14:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Eh, I always mix those up. Oops. --- -- (s)talkpage 18:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Most of the images on that site are concept art for GW: Utopia, so that second dragon might not actually show up in-game.. The first one is definately Grothmar. — Why 22:19, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uhm...

Any information anywhere that tells or hints where these dragons originated, as in when/where/who created them or how they came to exist :$. I couldn't imagine a God creating something that rivals their own power, unless accidentally =\. -- Nature 20:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

It's some "unfathomable magic" according to "The Movement of the World".Shew 22:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

In other words, they haven't figured that part out yet. -- Pling \ talk 22:23, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Another possible dragon

I believe the dragon heads on the Warrior 15k Canthan armor are the ancient dragons of Shiro Tagachi who awaken from all your wammo's shoulders, and cause a second Jade Wind that destroys all of Cantha and that's why you can't go to Cantha anymore in GW2. 24.67.173.150 22:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Of course, that explains EVERYTHING. Cress Arvein 02:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

O______________O Sensical Measures 02:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Dragon... ?

I was running through the Gates of Kryta mission and decided to go on a little seaside tour just because I hadn´t gone there before. So I just run there and see these massive rocks. At first I didn´t care about them but then I noticed something that kinda freaked me out: [1] I took some other crappy screenshots, watch if you want but I´d like to know if someone knows what the hell that is. 88.193.200.215 20:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

They're just... rocks. --- -- talkpage 21:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)